the legal standard for a 'terry stop' and 'failure to i.d.' charges

[jamey1976]

I have a question.

I live in cameron county, texas. My question regards the standard of making a 'terry stop', and legal obligation for disclosing your personal information upon reqest (failure to i.d.).
My question is, at any time, in any circumstance are you required by law to disclose your personal info any time the officer asks or face a failure to i.d. charge, or is that officer required to have some preceeding resonable suspicion/probable cause that you are involved in a crime before he could penalize you for then not disclosing your personal information? When does "thanks, but no thanks, now kindly leave me alone" cause you to face a failure to i.d. charge? Also, I know it also is largely down to the discretion of the officer, and whether you are in "contempt of [cop]", whether he's having a bad day, or whether he's low on his monthly ticket quota.

I live in a moderately high-crime neighborhood and I am stopped by the police periodically, and for me it's an indignity and an embarrassment to be interrogated by police for no apparent reason.

[GPottsLaw]

The standard for investigatory stops of citizens is set for all of the states by the US Supreme Court under the Fourth and Fourteenth Amendments. It requires at least "reasonable suspicion" that a crime is being or about to be committed. There is some latitude given to areas which are close to borders, as well as airports, but still there must be some articulable basis for the stop. So any charge, including a failure to ID would be unlawful if it arose from an unlawful stop. However, police often will articulate some basis for any stop, like weaving or rolling through a stop sign in order to justify a stop and any arrest that follows. Then it becomes your word against the officer's. Sometimes you win, but the odds generally favor the officer in court. Indignation is a noble cause, but if you choose to take on the police be prepared to martyr yourself, at least in the sense of paying some fines and court costs for the tickets you'll get. Another tactic would be to cooperate at the scene and make complaints to the police department and media
whenever it occurs, with the officers' names and badge numbers. You may make some enemies, but you will have a better chance of making a difference taking the slow approach through the system. My clients who try to take the quick route to relieve their indignations by butting heads with the police always make their lives much worse.

[lawbuff]

I have a question.

I live in cameron county, texas. My question regards the standard of making a 'terry stop', and legal obligation for disclosing your personal information upon reqest (failure to i.d.).
My question is, at any time, in any circumstance are you required by law to disclose your personal info any time the officer asks or face a failure to i.d. charge, or is that officer required to have some preceeding resonable suspicion/probable cause that you are involved in a crime before he could penalize you for then not disclosing your personal information?

The thread is old but may help others. In Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District, 2004, USSC, they laid to rest whether states could criminalize failure to ID yourself under/during a so called "stop and identify" law.

It was answered in the affirmitive.

A Terry stop can be on foot (pedestrian) or in a car, as only a "reasonable supsicion" a traffic offense has been committed is enough to stop (seize) a motor vehicle. Although Terry v. Ohio use the words "if CRIMINAL activity is afoot", it means ANY offense, regardless of classification.

Under Hiibel, the person MUST be under investigation if a charge of failure to produce ID/name is to arise out of it. You can read internal citations is Hiibel, including Texas/Brown for some insight.

State constitution's can afford greater protection, meaning, I think the MA high court just ruled that an officer is not even permitted to ask a passenger in a car for an ID unless under investigation.

Of course, if you are driving you must have a DL to present.

While Hiibel controls, there are a few rare exceptions when, even not under investigation, you must give your info to an officer even when not driving, etc.

[MBREY]

The main thing I take from Hiibel is that you dont have to produce ID whenever asked by Law Enforcement. Exceptions being if you are operating a Motor Vehicle, then you must have in your possesion a valid license to operate the same. So you could be required to produce a DL if you are pulled over while driving. But not being a Passenger, Walking down the street etc. You are only required to identify yourself with Legal Name & possibly Address or Birthdate.